A question on admins and server rules?

Post Reply
jonesey911

A question on admins and server rules?

Post by jonesey911 »

The story:

We were on Yehorivka destruction, defending:
So today I was playing in a game of squad on the RIP#1 server in a squad that the squad leader didn't want us to be directly on the objective (the rest of the team was and were losing objectives quickly). Instead of being on the objective we'd be near the objective or somewhere else that can support a flank but not support the objective directly (mortars, HMGs, etc.).

At first, we were setting up a FOB behind an enemy fob, which was behind our objective, we assaulted it and took it fairly quickly but in that time we lost both of the first objectives, so we decided to hold the position to catch any advancing troops and cover our team in their retreat (we dealt with an MBT and a fully loaded Logi), after a few minutes our squad leader told us the other squad leaders were complaining that we weren't helping the objective. So we withdrew and began running back from West Mogilyovo to Zolata Bunkers, almost the entire map.

By the time we'd got halfway we had already lost one of the objectives and decided to set up a supporting fob on a hill (we were still under attack from infantry to the south) we then managed to get a logi from main and build a fob there with machine guns that could reach the south hill and the southern flank of the rest of the team and hit (what we suspected to be) and enemy HAB. On the second supply run, the squad leader was kicked with the reason, not on the objective. When I questioned the admin that had kicked him for this he said that he was abusive in the squad leader chat (though I wasn't in the chat nor was it the reason given on the kicking).

My question!

Is it a server rule to be on the objective, and if so, how far away from the objective is considered not on the objective?
If not, why was he kicked?
And lastly, although, yes we were losing quite badly, should someone ever be kicked for what is (effectively) a disagreement on what is helpful to the team?

What's done is done in this case, but I was wondering in future, if I decide to squad lead if I would be at the whims of what the other squads wish for me to do, or if I would be able to use my own initiative to help the team.
S8SAssassin

Re: A question on admins and server rules?

Post by S8SAssassin »

Hi jonesey911,

The server rules can be read here:
https://www.rustyinplaces.org/rules/server-rules

In the squad section there is no rule as that u have to be on an objective, just advise that you should be playing for the objectives.

He would not have been kicked otherwise, he would have been kicked for abuse to admin or offensive language (also in the link above).

Otherwise just play to have fun and within the defined rules as posted.

Have fun playing 👍
CaZ
Warrant Officer 1
Warrant Officer 1
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:45 pm

Re: A question on admins and server rules?

Post by CaZ »

Hi jonesey911,

Thank you for coming by our forum, I tried to explain it on chat earlier but it's indeed easier sometimes to discuss things here when things are unclear.

I'm the admin that eventually kicked him for good cause.

Squad leaders do indeed have their own say in how to execute an objective. However, there's a difference in playing the objective and wasting team assets. When the objective is to defend caches and your SL decides to hold a village of no purpose in means of intercepting enemy logi trucks while the enemy has many routes available and when they were already on our caches - I consider it wasting team asset.

In the beginning of the game he built his 1st HAB far from both the active caches, it was not even on the 3rd and 4th caches. Yeho Airfield was left undefended.
He only moved his squad when I asked him to assist with the defense.

The 2nd HAB he built was again not near the caches.

Once the 1st and 2nd cache were destroyed and we as a team had to regroup, fall back and defended the 3rd and 4th cache I asked him if he wanted a lift in my BTR with his squad to the defense caches but he refused & declined on multiple occasions.

When we again were losing the 3rd and 4th caches we asked if he could fall back and help with the defense but he again refused. He took a logistics truck which we as a team needed badly for building a defense HAB and went on to build MG bunkers far far from the defense caches along with dedicating a full squad of 9 man manning them. This all in all when enemies where already on top of our caches.

At that time squad leaders started bad mouthing each other much to his refusal to cooperate with the other SLs and just do his own thing and I told them all to calm down. It was when he began saying F you to squad leaders and calling them retarded that I kicked him.

The rules he broke that justified a kick:
Bad language
Disrespect
Do not waste your teams assets
Image
jonesey911

Re: A question on admins and server rules?

Post by jonesey911 »

Hello:

Indeed it is easier to discuss things in a forum environment.

Although the objective is to defend the caches, there must be a level of trust that each of the other squad leaders are doing something of consequence and are not doing anything just because they are nowhere near one of the marked objectives. Even though there is a command chat, explaining the entire plan of one squad leader in that chat can take away from the communications of both the squad level and other squad leaders that may have something to report in that channel.

At the beginning of the first fob that was placed was intended to allow a quick retreat to the next objective, I do agree it wouldn't have been where I would have placed it, but it is possible he misunderstood the game mode and how the next caches would spawn. As to airfield being left undefended, you can't honestly claim that there were no other squads that could have taken it upon themselves to defend it, and as such, it is a failing of the team and not on one squad leader.

The circumstances of the 2nd hab were that we engaged an enemy fob that was north of the 2nd cache, and the hab was placed as a staging ground to attack that. In which one of the BTRs use as a repair station to repair and re-arm. so calling that a waste of assets isn't really fair either.

When the first and second caches were destroyed the decision was made to stay behind and try and catch any soldiers attempting to follow after the retreating troops. In which we engaged an MBT, and a fully loaded logi, as well as sporadic infantry. I do admit we probably stayed there too long.
The squad leader made the decision to move us up to aid the 3 and 4th caches and sent someone to main to grab a logi to pick everyone up and move to there. When the logi arrived at the infantry that was running across the map, the 3rd cache had been destroyed. We then created the fob with the MG bunkers in an attempt to attack infantry that was running up the southern hill towards the caches (as you say, they were already on top of the caches), we believed it was the only way we could support you as we wouldn't have arrived in time to be able to help there.

As for using a full 9 man squad to man them, there was no point in splitting the squad to bring them all back together in 2 minutes with one half not doing anything but running to the caches.

As to the poor language choices of the squad leader in the squad leader's chat, I can't say that that wasn't a just reason for kicking him. But if I was told all game all of my decisions were wasting team assets, I'd be pretty annoyed too.

As to why you kicked him, it can't be changed now, even if I managed to change your mind, and it's not permanent, so it doesn't matter, but the reason of wasting team assets is something that is extremely subjective in this case, every action taken was in the teams interest and with a reason behind it, whether the squad leader was able to convey those reasons or not is another matter.

Even when we did come to the caches and defended them, it made no difference to how the battle played out, we still lost the game. I hope at least I helped you understand the circumstances around the eventual kicking and allowed you to see it from another perspective.

Personally, I don't believe wasting of team assets should be used as a reason unless it is seriously wasting team assets such as one-manning an MBT and getting it destroyed immediately not for decisions squad leaders take.
CaZ
Warrant Officer 1
Warrant Officer 1
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:45 pm

Re: A question on admins and server rules?

Post by CaZ »

Hi jonesey911,

Thank you for the input and your perspective.

We can have a long debate about good and bad strategic choices but in order to stay on the topic I want to say the following:

The things I mentioned were 3 instances where he built HABs & FOBs far away from the defense caches.
As you noticed there was no immediate kick on the 1st or 2nd HAB and FOB he built. Merely voice com suggestions from me and other SLs that he should be more active on the actual defense caches.

Squad is about teamwork and cooperation. No squad leader should be a dictator to other SLs and force them to do what he or she wants. Absolutely not. But, playing the objective and cooperating with other SLs is the point of the game. I didn't mind losing at the end because we were actually playing as a team.

When he decided to stay on West Mogilyovo even though the objective was to defend Zolota Bunkers or Ivanivka - and not only stay but dedicate a 9 man squad + a full logistics truck building MG bunkers without communicating with us his intentions when being asked too, I consider it a waste of asset. You may call it "extremely subjective" but I can assure you must would agree with me.

At the end he wasn't kicked for only "wasting assets" but mainly for using socially unacceptable language. Admins have to act when we feel it's necessary to protect the integrity of the server and community. Squad leaders arguing and disagreeing with each other is no excuse for using such language. And this was unfortunately not the first time he has been kicked for a similarly unacceptable behavior.
jonesey911 wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:50 pm but I was wondering in future, if I decide to squad lead if I would be at the whims of what the other squads wish for me to do, or if I would be able to use my own initiative to help the team.
You may certainly use your own initiative and creativity as long as you play the objective and communicate with other SLs. If you're new to being a squad leader or if you're unsure how you can contribute to the overall victory for the team then communicate with other Squad leaders and coordinate a team effort. If you however don't communicate and take your entire squad somewhere far away from the objectives with team assets then that's a no go.
Image
Post Reply