Looking to get a new stationary PC.

[Plan B]

Damn, well last month when I was buying my new SSD the price difference was a LOT bigger :'D

[btodac - free banana]

This has changed a lot the last couple of years, even squad now takes advantage of multiple cores/threads lately, so getting a 6-8 core is very nice these days but a 4c8t will get by still if the clockspeeds are high enough but 4core processors tend to bottleneck recent graphics cards.

Games often use multiple threads, but struggle to use multiple cores. They are hard to parallelize due to memory sharing constraints (multiple processes cant access the same memory at the same time). Squad uses about 25% of my 6-core Ryzen, for example, so it uses two cores and lets assume a third core dedicated to running small tasks in the background for the OS/teamspeak/firefox and that's it. Most of the CPU is twiddling its thumbs while I'm playing games, the GPU on the other hand keeps my room nice and warm!

[VoidProxy]

Games often use multiple threads, but struggle to use multiple cores. They are hard to parallelize due to memory sharing constraints (multiple processes cant access the same memory at the same time). Squad uses about 25% of my 6-core Ryzen, for example, so it uses two cores and lets assume a third core dedicated to running small tasks in the background for the OS/teamspeak/firefox and that's it. Most of the CPU is twiddling its thumbs while I'm playing games, the GPU on the other hand keeps my room nice and warm!

That would mean we all have been wasting money no? Why buy a nice new faster cpu if most games don't use most of it? Buy an old AMD cpu like you had for 50 bucks and be done with it.

[btodac - free banana]

The CPUs haven't got "faster" for about 20 years, 4Ghz seems to be pretty much the max. CPUs have improved, but its subtle architecture improvements. Things like increased cache size, new instruction sets and the like that help more then the number of cores, but that's harder for the marketing departments to work with. They much prefer "Hey guys we have new stuff, look it has bigger numbers therefore it is better! Don't ask me why!"
The components surrounding the CPU also improve and the components keep requiring new interfaces, so we have to upgrade the MOBO and then the old CPU wont fit...

[VoidProxy]

The CPUs haven't got "faster" for about 20 years, 4Ghz seems to be pretty much the max. CPUs have improved, but its subtle architecture improvements. Things like increased cache size, new instruction sets and the like that help more then the number of cores, but that's harder for the marketing departments to work with. They much prefer "Hey guys we have new stuff, look it has bigger numbers therefore it is better! Don't ask me why!"
The components surrounding the CPU also improve and the components keep requiring new interfaces, so we have to upgrade the MOBO and then the old CPU wont fit...

15 Year old Celeron CPU
https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Celeron_ ... 400C).html

VS any CPU on the market right now.
Higher clock speed, higher core count, hyperthreading in general, since that was never a thing until like 10 years ago.
It's not only the interfaces that change, it's the products and software. All these new games and software and even hardware are requiring beter CPU's to work at it's full potential, but you can't convince me CPU's haven't gotten faster since we can do a little benchmark right now and see a huge difference.

Edit: not to mention 32bit vs 64bit.

Edit 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPWEdbfJ0oE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S3fm9OAlZ8

[btodac - free banana]

When I say speed I refer to the clock speed. Intel Pentium 4s were operating at modern clock speeds, and had HT, in 2003. Things like the moving to 64bit memory addresses are what I mean when I say subtle improvements. The guys from marketing struggle to sell based on things like that. Worse still, they turn around and ask when the 128bit version can be released!
The benchmarking video you linked to is very interesting, it shows the difference in frame rates between same generation i5s and i7s is negligible. The extra cores don't help. Unless you do lots of video encoding, code compiling, numerical modelling etc. (in which case it's preferable to have a dedicated machine or access to HPC facilities) two cores is plenty.

[VoidProxy]

When I say speed I refer to the clock speed. Intel Pentium 4s were operating at modern clock speeds, and had HT, in 2003. Things like the moving to 64bit memory addresses are what I mean when I say subtle improvements. The guys from marketing struggle to sell based on things like that. Worse still, they turn around and ask when the 128bit version can be released!
The benchmarking video you linked to is very interesting, it shows the difference in frame rates between same generation i5s and i7s is negligible. The extra cores don't help. Unless you do lots of video encoding, code compiling, numerical modelling etc. (in which case it's preferable to have a dedicated machine or access to HPC facilities) two cores is plenty.

Like, I'm not saying you're wrong but how do you explain current CPU's being better than older ones? For any purpose, both gaming and multi-tasking? Sure like, in comparison to previous serie CPU the difference isn't big, but does this mean I could've built a rig for like 300 bucks less since I could've bought an old mobo and old cpu?

Edit:

You should try turning off some cores in your BIOS when you have time. Disable 3 out of 6 cores you have now and see how the performance is?

[btodac - free banana]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying and, as I said before, new CPUs are better than old ones. However, I stand by my point: core count is not that important to gaming. Modern games are acceptably playable on old CPUs with modern graphics cards, but a totally modern computer will run games better. Using up to date systems makes games very pretty, but keeping systems up to date makes your bank balance ugly.
My choice is to update the CPU last and avoid the expensive CPUs. CPU instruction sets update and expand, the architectures improve and, as you rightly say, their ability to interface with other components changes. Buying an expensive CPU offers little if any future proofing against such developments.

I will try your experiment and report back.

[VoidProxy]

Modern games are acceptably playable on old CPUs with modern graphics cards, but a totally modern computer will run games better. Using up to date systems makes games very pretty, but keeping systems up to date makes your bank balance ugly.

A very ugly bank balance. I agree with you on that! xD

I guess if you wanna do anything next to gaming you do already need a more up to date CPU or any other parts if you wanna keep up. Ofcourse if you only wanna game and don't do much else (and ofc don't have a big budget for any reason), an older CPU will do just fine. But if you like to listen to music, be in teamspeak and have any other programs running in the background and still want to have great performance in game AND not have to upgrade for the next 4-5 years or so, you'd be better off with a new one.

I think bigger part of it is also that for most pc building and pc gaming is also a hobby, so wanting to upgrade is not only for the performance boost but about having the newest tech features and it being pretty

[SirT83]

I know this is in Norwegian, but figured it's easy to read the specs anyway.
Is this a good choice?

Produsent

Lenovo

Operativsystem (versjon)

Windows 10

Operativsystem (bit)

64-bit

Prosessor

Chores:

8 

Prosessor (familie)

AMD Ryzen™ 7

Prosessor (modell)

3700X

Prosessorspeed

3.6 Ghz

Prosessorspeed med boost

4.4 Ghz

Grafikk

Grafikkprosessor (familie)

NVIDIA Geforce RTX

Grafikkprosessor (modell)

GeForce RTX 3070

Grafikkarkitektur

Ampere

Dedicated graphicmemory

GDDR6

Dedikert graphicprosessor

Ja

G-SYNC-compatibel

Ja

Graphic memory capacity

8 Gb

Storage

Total storage capacity

512 Gb


Type storage

M.2 SSD

SSD kapasitet

512 Gb

Workmemory (RAM)

Minnekapasitet

16 Gb

Type RAM

DDR4

Minnehastighet

3200 Megahertz

RAM

16 GB (2x8 GB)

Maksimal RAM-mengde

128 Gb

[VoidProxy]

I know this is in Norwegian, but figured it's easy to read the specs anyway.
Is this a good choice?

Storage
Total storage capacity
512 Gb
Type storage
M.2 SSD
SSD kapasitet
512 Gb

All specs are great, I do think your storage might be on the low side (I don't know how many and which games you play), I'd get a 1TB or 2TB HDD in addition to this. However this is something you can always do after buying the PC.

[Meizner]

I know this is in Norwegian, but figured it's easy to read the specs anyway.
Is this a good choice?

That seems fine, although I'm worried about the PSU.

Can you send the link instead?

[SirT83]

https://www.power.no/data-og-tilbehoer/ ... p-1119198/

[Meizner]

https://www.power.no/data-og-tilbehoer/ ... p-1119198/

I generally hate companies like Elgiganten or Power as they suck massive balls.

The PSU is a problem, since Nvidia recommends 650 Watt for the Nvidia RTX 3070, and the linked computer only has 550 Watt.

The storage is on the low side, but it depends on, if you're playing many games at the same time or if you only stick to a couple.

I would recommend 1TB SSD as minimum, and in my use case I would've have chosen a 2TB SSD.

I don't know why people still use HDD's for their personal computers, I store all of my files in the cloud.

This link is nearly the same price, and it's a lot better in my opinion. You do need to call them to get it fitted with a 750 watt psu, but that shouldn't be a problem.

https://www.mm-vision.dk/visiongaming/R ... stationaer

[VoidProxy]

I generally hate companies like Elgiganten or Power as they suck massive balls.

I would recommend 1TB SSD as minimum, and in my use case I would've have chosen a 2TB SSD.

I don't know why people still use HDD's for their personal computers, I store all of my files in the cloud.

Because 1TB SSD and 2TB SSD is like 2-3x times the price of an HDD, I know its slower but its good for the price.

[Meizner]

Because 1TB SSD and 2TB SSD is like 2-3x times the price of an HDD, I know its slower but its good for the price.

That's correct, to each his own

[VoidProxy]

That's correct, to each his own

Me complaining about SSD price

Also me:
I just bought a 1TB WD Black NVMe with heatsink.

[SirT83]

I generally hate companies like Elgiganten or Power as they suck massive balls.

The PSU is a problem, since Nvidia recommends 650 Watt for the Nvidia RTX 3070, and the linked computer only has 550 Watt.

The storage is on the low side, but it depends on, if you're playing many games at the same time or if you only stick to a couple.

I would recommend 1TB SSD as minimum, and in my use case I would've have chosen a 2TB SSD.

I don't know why people still use HDD's for their personal computers, I store all of my files in the cloud.

This link is nearly the same price, and it's a lot better in my opinion. You do need to call them to get it fitted with a 750 watt psu, but that shouldn't be a problem.

https://www.mm-vision.dk/visiongaming/R ... stationaer

I've had a look on the page you provided. The problem is that I would have to pay 25% of the price to get it into Norway, of course in addition to the price I've allready paid. Which would make the price way to high compared to what I can find in Norway.

[Meizner]

I've had a look on the page you provided. The problem is that I would have to pay 25% of the price to get it into Norway, of course in addition to the price I've allready paid. Which would make the price way to high compared to what I can find in Norway.

Yeah okay, I can see the problem there.

Can you provide some Norweigan possibilities, then I can take a look

[SirT83]

Like different websites?

www.komplett.no Usually one of the best places to buy a PC in Norway. At least that I know of.

www.power.no
www.elkjop.no
www.digitalimpuls.no